S2E49: Raising Kids With ADHD Without Losing Yourself + guest Tiara Brumberg

Julie Legg speaks with Tiara Brumberg, certified ADHD coach, entrepreneur, and founder of The Middle Coaching. Tiara lives and breathes the realities of ADHD both professionally and personally — as a mum to three children with ADHD, a partner to a husband with ADHD, and an ADHDer herself.

Together, they explore what Tiara calls the “messy middle” — the real-life space where executive functioning challenges, emotional dysregulation, parenting pressures, and everyday family chaos collide.

Tiara shares honest insights about raising neurodivergent kids without losing yourself in the process, why curiosity is more powerful than criticism in ADHD households, and how simple tools like whiteboards, visual systems, and self-compassion can transform family dynamics.

Key Points from the Episode:

• Parenting in a household where everyone has ADHD
• Late ADHD diagnosis in high-performing women
• Curiosity vs criticism when kids struggle with behaviour
• The “messy middle” of family life with ADHD
• Why ADHD mums often lose themselves in caregiving
• Self-compassion in the middle of overwhelm
• Visual tools and whiteboards to reduce mental load
• Moving from nagging to collaboration with kids
• Teaching independence without shame or power struggles
• The importance of internal vs external locus of control
• Why parents must “put their oxygen mask on first”
• Redefining success in ADHD families

Links:

• FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/tiara.brumberg/
• INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/tebrumberg/
• WEBSITE: https://www.themiddlecoaching.net/
• LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/themiddlecoaching/

Thanks for listening. 

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🌐 WEBSITE: ADHDifference.nz  

📷 INSTAGRAM: ADHDifference_podcast 

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 ℹ️ DISCLAIMER: This podcast is for informational purposes only. The views expressed are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or ADHDifference. Read More

Transcript

TIARA: And if our whole how we are doing mentally is connected to our kids and how they're doing, if it's that external locus where all of these other people can decide how our day went for us, that is such a dangerous space to live in. I remember like the, as a kid going on the airplane and how they talk about you know, like the parents have to put the mask on first and I always thought like that doesn't make any sense. Like the kids can't reach it. Help the kid. Like they help the kid first, but as an adult, it really does make more sense. We can't be the caregivers we need to be. We can't create the kind of safe home environment that they need to flourish if we are not doing okay.

JULIE: Welcome to Season 2 of ADHDifference. I'm your host, Julie Legg, ADHD advocate, author of The Missing Piece (a woman's guide to understanding, diagnosing, and living with ADHD), and an unapologetic doer of many things. This season, we're turning up the volume with a global lineup of brilliant guests, bringing their lived experiences, insights, research, strategies, and resources. And of course, along with a healthy dose of humour and humility. Whether you're neurodivergent yourself or just curious, there's something here for every curious brain. Let's dive in. Today I'm joined by Tiara Brumberg, certified ADHD coach, entrepreneur, founder of The Middle Coaching, and mom to three kids with ADHD. She's also married to a man with ADHD, which means she understands the messy middle side of life. Both professionally and personally, Tiara helps families navigate the real-life chaos where executive functioning meets emotional dysregulation, where routines fall apart, and everyone's nervous system is on edge. This is a conversation about self-compassion in the trenches, how to raise kids with ADHD without losing yourself in the process. Welcome to the show today, Tiara. [Thank you so much for having me.] Right, look, you're a certified ADHD coach and a business owner and a wife to a man with ADHD and a mom to three kids with ADHD. And that's a lot of executive functioning in one household, right? So before we talk about tools, can you take us on your own journey? What it really looks like to navigate ADHD, not just professionally, but inside your home? 

TIARA: Absolutely. And I'll even add to that. I also have ADHD. There you go. I know. Not to brag, but when I was diagnosed, he was like, "You need five out of nine of the criteria to qualify as an ADHD diagnosis. And you have nine out of nine for both." So, I have like super ADHD. Congratulations. That's wonderful. Great. Thank you. I don't, I told I said "This tracks. I don't do anything halfway." So, I think that's all part of that. Perfect. But yes, it has been, it has just been so interesting. I think it's interesting also being a person with ADHD, you know, we have a natural in inclination to hyperfixate and kind of go down these rabbit holes. So, it's fun when you have that about ADHD and you have ADHD. It really is fun how it it just is never ending and it's always evolving and I feel like it has really created a layer of grace and understanding that we operate from as a family. I think there's something about the diagnosis of ADHD where before that you know, when people struggled with meeting expectations in our home like kids not doing what they're supposed to do or getting upset or acting out or talking back you know. I'm from Birmingham, Alabama. I'm not from here originally but that's where I live now and my husband grew up in the South. So, there's such a big piece as a parent of disrespect and my kids are choosing these behaviors because they're not scared of me like they should be. And there was something about the ADHD diagnosis that just finally opened our eyes to, you know, what if this isn't a choice? What if in their mind, what if in all of our minds, we are all waking up every day hoping that we are loved, that we are impressive, that we are kind, that we are smart, that we are capable, that we are everybody's favorite person. And then ADHD gets in our way. Not because we don't care or we're not trying hard enough, but because sometimes with all of that, I think we have bigger goals for ourselves even than other people have. So just operating from that kind of mentality of if somebody disappoints or doesn't meet expectations, doesn't do something, thinking about that from a position of curiosity. Well, when I asked them to do it, was I clear? Did they understand the directions? What kind of day did they have before that happened? I feel like that's been so huge for my family and led to me wanting to open this business where I could have other help other families have those kinds of conversations so that you all feel like you're on the same team. 

JULIE: Definitely. And may I ask the order of events of who was diagnosed first because sometimes the children's diagnosis sort of instigate assessment for the parents but you know everyone's different. So I'd love to hear your journey. 

TIARA: Absolutely. So my son and daughter my son was first, is now 12. He was diagnosed when he was 10. And you know our system, the way they do things here is they start with those Vanderbilt assessments. So I did Vanderbilts for my son and my older daughter who's now in high school but at the time was in middle school. My daughter is a type A inattentive ADHD who has anxiety and is a perfectionist. So her Vanderbilts looked like no problem, no ADHD here. My son's, because he's a boy and has more of that impulsivity, he was the first to get flagged which then also I will say part of that was I'm also an occupational therapy assistant. I'd been working for four years in a pediatric facility with kids who have learning challenges specifically dyslexia, dyscalculia and primarily we have kids who have ADHD. So I was doing continuing education in ADHD for my occupational therapy practice and that journey is what helped me kind of start viewing my kids' behaviours differently to even look at those Vanderbilts and start getting curious. So once they got diagnosed, my husband has always kind of joked that he had ADHD. But we were like, let's go ahead and find out for sure. And I think that did help him a lot. I have a friend who's a neurophysiologist who was here in Alabama doing a rotation and I remember meeting with her telling her about my continuing ed and ADHD and my family getting diagnosed. And she was like "So when are you getting tested..." and I remember being like what do you mean like I don't do what they do. I don't struggle like they do. I'm an over-performing type A firstborn girl who's all done all the things, loves you know, has a million coping strategies. So I really was in denial for a long time about having ADHD. And then the first time I went to get tested and kind of my doctor had me fill out a one-page paper back in front and he was like, "You don't have ADHD. It's a little bit borderline. I think you're just stressed out or it's hormones." And I remember being disappointed and relieved. I felt like at least I'd checked it off. I'd humoured everybody. I'd gotten it done. But then the more the deeper and deeper I got down this path and the more families I talked to, I think the reason I connect with my clients so much, it's like I connect with them because I'm one of them. So I finally went and got actual like real and then that's when they were like super ADHD. So yeah, that was kind of how things progressed. 

JULIE: That's really interesting. And you talked about you know, initially they went "Oh no I don't think it's ADHD, stress anxiety etc," but as you had said you're an A type in so far as you're super organized, you're a high achiever, you have created your own coping mechanisms so you present as not a problematic adult, you know what I mean? And so yet that's after years of strategy and it's all because of your underlying ADHD that you've put these processes in place. So that's a very familiar thing. So well done. I'm so glad that you've got to the bottom of it. You earlier you talked about grace, bringing grace into the family home, knowing everybody thinks differently and not judging them necessarily on their behaviour but digging a bit deeper. So I think that's marvelous. Tiara, thank you so much. You call your practice The Middle Coaching and the messy middle where executive functioning challenges meets real life chaos. So what does that messy middle actually look like in a household full of ADHD? 

TIARA: Oh, it is. It's a little bit like a party. I always tell people when we walk our dogs, it looks like there's a parade going by. So, it's definitely fun, but there is that, you know, with ADHD, we know there's a lot of sensory stimulation required in order to keep our brains going. So, it is kind of navigating that balance between keeping everybody busy and engaged enough so that we are productive and keeping up with routines, but not so much that we're burned out because we know if there's not enough stimulation, that's where, especially with my kids, like you see some of those behaviours, picking on each other and starting fights and doing things that might get them in trouble because they're not stimulated enough. So for each kid, the tools that they have are so different. In our house, the messiness also looks like four people humming and singing different songs, and I'm standing in the middle of them because I don't do that, but I have my own things I do, but I'm in a house of singers. So I we're eating dinner, and none of them notices that each of them is humming or singing. So, it's fun. Wow. It's a good time. I think it helps just also knowing what I do and why they're doing that. It is funny, you know, from time to time they're like, "Stop." They'll get annoyed with each other for singing, not noticing that they stopped singing to tell the other person to stop singing. So I think having a sense of humour about all of it really helps a lot. Sometimes we know with ADHD there's going to be some of that high energy. And high energy sometimes can look like anger, frustration, or it can look like happiness and giddiness and silliness. And so we try to keep things as light as possible and tend to go more that way. And that has really helped our family in terms of curbing and controlling some of that energy. 

JULIE: Wow, that's amazing. Well done. Well done. I love the picture though of a parade going by or a party. That's a lot of energy swirling around at any one time. It's marvelous. But though many ADHD moms feel like they're holding it together for everyone else while quietly unraveling themselves, I guess. And you speak a lot about self-compassion and remembering who you are outside of your business and family responsibilities. Why is that especially hard for ADHD moms? 

TIARA: I mean, I think there's a lot that rolls into that. We know, you know, growing up, especially for people who were later diagnosed and maybe didn't know that was what was going on or even people who know earlier, there's so many more micro-isms for us when you have ADHD. And we are very aware of our shortcomings in the places that we fail and that we miss the mark with people. And we are really good at remembering all of them in great detail and replaying them over and over again. So, I think there's that piece of always feeling like we need to do more than what we're doing. And that kind of I have all this energy, therefore it means I need to be producing all the time and doing something and staying busy. I think also a lot of people with ADHD, I know myself included and several of my clients, we do have all this creative energy. So, it's very aspirationally focused. You know, doing all these things for people. It's you want to have that Facebook page or the Christmas card or the birthday post or the party that looks like it's straight from Pinterest or a magazine. We want to be able to do all those things for our kids because we feel like we need to look like how the world wants us to look. And I think that is the thing that's put out that moms see most are all of these beautifully curated moments. And it can feel I know for myself as a person who's you know lived with ADHD my whole life, it has often felt like I'm kind of an alien observer trying to watch what everybody else is doing so that I can figure out what I'm supposed to be doing. So when I see everybody else doing those things, it feels like I'm supposed to be doing those things too. And that's what success looks like. So and because we don't do things halfway, we get hyperfixating and maybe we don't sleep because we stay up doing these things all night long just so we can take that one picture so that we hope that that means that we're doing it right. So I think that can be a big piece of it. 

JULIE: I love your analogy about the alien observing. I've written a book called The Missing Piece and that was literally the opening line as a child. I just remember observing everything around me, soaking it all in, working out, trying to piece everything together, trying to work out who was saying what and where and how that related to me and how perhaps I should respond back. And that really hadn't changed at all since childhood. So no, I love that. Thank you. 

TIARA: Yeah. And I think sorry I think one more thing too is I think that does tend to because we're observing and we're trying to find we're fantastic pattern recognizers and I think we especially are looking for those with our kids and I think in order to control our own regulation we try to anticipate needs as much as possible. And that can I think lead to a lot of spinning out and control trying to control the environment and our kids interactions because we're trying to also control ourselves and us getting overstimulated and that can lead to over-performing for us and under-expecting from our family members. And I think that's also a piece of it. Yeah. 

JULIE: There's a lot of outgoing energy when you talk about, you know, with the ADHD for ourselves, let alone trying to be the conductor in an ADHD orchestra that is the family home. That's a lot of energy. Yeah, so a lot of time out I guess is required even for us parents. So talking of timeout, what does self-compassion actually look like when you're in the heart of it in the trenches, not just in theory but on a crazy afternoon when everything's and everybody is dysregulated as much as you are? 

TIARA: Yeah. And that I love that. I love that question. So being completely vulnerable and open. I had a moment last week where we're about to head to a basketball game. My kids were finishing up dinner, several of them had questions for me and I just remember walking into the kitchen and it was almost one of those like you're not in your body and you're watching the stuff swirling around you and I just said, "I really guys, I love you. I just need everybody to just stop for just a minute. Like I feel like I'm on the edge of getting of shutting down. So I need to... I don't think I can leave this room. So, if you can be quiet, you can stay. If you need something from me, write it on the whiteboard." And then I sat in a chair and I put my head between my knees and I held my son's hand and we took three deep breaths together. And they were just quiet with me while I was quiet. And then I lifted my head up and I took another deep breath and I said, "Okay, I love you guys. Sometimes I just need a minute because it is a lot. It is sometimes it's a lot." And I try to be very real with them because I know they're going to grow up to be adults with ADHD who may find themselves overwhelmed with their families. And I want them to feel like it's okay sometimes to tell people what you need and to show that you're not a perfect robot human. So that was a really beautiful reset for me. And I know they kind of stayed quiet while we walked out to go to the basketball game. And then my son later that night said, "You know, if there's anything I can do to help, just let me know." I said, "That's very sweet. That is very sweet." 

JULIE: Sorry, I've got little glassy eyes at the moment. That was really beautiful and showing our vulnerability in such a kind way to our children,  and as you said, they have to learn. They're going to be adults, too. And it invoked some real mindfulness and thoughtfulness on their behalf too. So what a beautiful moment. Thank you for sharing that and I really appreciate that. You specialize in making executive functioning tangible. So you use visible tools and checklists and real world systems. So what is a tool that has genuinely shifted the dynamic in your home? 

TIARA: White boards. I love them. I have found for me, I know this is true of, you know, I'm not going to say everyone with ADHD, a lot of my clients with ADHD, this has help them. My brain has 4,000 tabs open at a time. So, when I'm shifting between tabs and figuring out which tab I need to do next and what order to do things, and then someone comes up and says, "Have you seen my crocs?" It is the quickest way to send me into a tail spin because I almost had it figured out and now I've got to try to retrace and figure out where I was in my thinking and where their crocs are. So, one thing that has helped is that whiteboard system. So, when my kids have a there's something that they need for me. Now, with the crocs example, I don't my kids now know if they ask me something like "Where are my Crocs?" My answer back is going to be "Where do you think you should look to find them?" So I really have one thing we've done proactively is we've gotten rid of all the fairies in our house. So the fairies that would refill water bottles and the fairies that would bring everybody's water bottle to the park, the fairies that put all the shoes away, the fairies that line up the backpacks and plug in the Chromebooks. We had a going away party. They were exhausted and so they're not here anymore. So the kids put their own dishes in the sink, they put their own shoes away. If they've misplaced their crocs, they don't have crocs. So we've got homes for everything so that specifically wouldn't happen, but in general, random questions that can throw me off. They need more, they need new shoes for something, they need a field trip permission slip signed. They write it on a whiteboard for me if they need me to do something. And then I get to go to the whiteboard when I have a moment and then that's when I'll come and talk to them about it or order a thing from Amazon or set up a time with them when we are going to talk about it. So that way it... because you know they've got that impulsivity too. They're worried they're going to forget. So they're going to ask me 50 times to do a thing because they can't remember if they've asked or not or what my answer was. So making things visual especially with that so that I can I have found if I'm able to stay calm and regulated and not be surprised by specific times of day if I can manage that for me our house just flows much better when there's somebody who's a consistently calm you know, not always but as much as I can be that has been the thing that's anchored us. 

JULIE: That is fabulous. I love the 4,000 tabs open and I can completely relate to that. And often we hear things. We hear things like "Can you please..." and the instant response is yep, we did to say "Yes I heard you," but actually the odds of us remembering that it's not so high. So fair enough. "But you said yes. Oh did I? Oh, well I did, but I was right in the middle of my, you know, 317th tab at that time." So yeah, the whiteboard, what a simple thing. Actually, just thinking about that, I had a huge blackboard in my kitchen when the kids were growing up. And in a way, we kind of... I didn't know I had ADHD at the time. It kind of worked in a in a similar fashion. Well done. Very good. So, what about for the mom who feels overwhelmed by mornings, which are pretty crazy, or the after school or right in the middle of when every everybody's energy just explodes and there's maybe an emotional blow up, where would you suggest she begins? 

TIARA: Yeah. I think for the kids kind of having those, a lot of times what I'll do with clients is work on what are those morning expectations, what are those afternoon expectations, what are those bedtime expectations, and kind of creating visual checklists a lot of times for their kids. So that the mom doesn't have to be the one that's "Did you brush your teeth? Did you put out your outfit for tomorrow?" A lot of times kids become reliant on those cues. They know what they're supposed to do, but because they're boring or non-preferred tasks, they're not going to do them until they have to do them, and they don't have to do them until mom remembers to ask them to do them. So, part of that piece is just proactively coming up with again something. So, we're getting it, we're downloading that from mom's brain and we're saying, "Here is your brain that you can use. Here's your programming." So when kids are getting ready for school and it's 10 minutes till I'll have them set an alarm be like "Have you completed your checklist or show me your five," is something we've done and they say "Here's my water bottle. Here's my Chromebook. Here's my whatever..." the things are that they need. We try to keep it to one hand. So as much that's a piece of it is offloading those and having those kids responsibility and that's the expected behavior in order to earn the kinds of things that they probably already have access to a lot of the times. I think the other piece is helping moms be aware of when are you most triggered? What times of days most trigger you and what could you do proactively to get yourself in a space where you're not surprised by that. So, if mornings are always hard and you know that you have trouble waking up, it can be difficult sometimes with ADHD. We're like, "Today will be different. Today, they're going to do all their checklist." And then when something goes wrong, we're surprised again. And then that's activating. So, some of that I think is just acceptance of and having kind of those like mantras or scripts that you can say to yourself of like "This is dyregulation, not disrespect. I can pause. I can breathe. I can try again. The morning might be tough, but I can control myself." Something that you can say to yourself before it all gets started so that you are hoping for the best, but also being aware of I need to be remain flexible so that I don't get activated by my kids because this is not surprising. Mornings are always hard. So, how do we build that in and how do we and if possible make that as light as we can? 

JULIE: So, yeah, great advice. Thank you. Now, with a household of ADHDers, if we think about shame and power struggles, goodness. How do you switch that to something that looks more like collaboration and understanding? 

TIARA: I think a lot of that is communication. With the kids, a lot of the clients that I work with, they come to me because the kids feel like they're being nagged all the time and the parents are exhausted because they feel like the kids aren't listening to them. So trying to come up with systems that, you know, especially for me in my business with coaching, I'm working with the kids. So, they're coming up with "What do you think would work for you to help you remember to make your bed each day, because you need to make your bed in order to earn hanging out with your friend after school. So, if that's important to you, what do you think you could do?" And then also, "How are you gonna let mom and dad know if you don't want to be cued? How are you going to let them know you've done it so that they don't have to come nag you? So, is that taking a picture of your room showing your made bed? Is that before you leave for school, you have an alarm set that says, "Tell mom your bed is made." What could that look like to give the kids the control back and teach some of that independence and self- responsibility to help alleviate some of that strain where it feels like well I'm reminding you because you need reminding and the kids feel like well you're reminding me is what's making me do it." So again trying to be proactive and just look at sometimes also what is the ultimate goal here. I've had clients who, you know, they're like, "We want to do coaching because our son won't take a shower at 7 o'clock every night and we need him to take a shower." Okay. What's so magical about 700 p.m. showers? Like, maybe let's talk about this. "Well, that's what I've always done. And in my family, we always grew up taking showers at 7:00 p.m." Okay. Well, have you asked him why, like what his plan would be for showers? "Well, he wants to take one right before bed because he likes the way his body feels in the sheets when he goes right from the shower to bed." Okay. So, is the more important thing that it happens at 7:00 p.m. or that he gets it done at night time? So, also sometimes clarifying, do you both actually want the same thing, but we're focusing too hard on the how it's happening? Where is the kind of disconnect here and what's the ultimate goal we're working towards? 

JULIE: That makes perfect sense. And it's giving the child as they, as they're growing older, as you said more independence because and I was chatting to a guest couple of couple of episodes ago about how important it is teaching independence or allowing independence to grow. So when that young adult leaves home, they are equipped and they're not so reliant on mom and dad to do everything for them. So a little baby steps or child steps or whatever it takes just to yeah to be self- responsible and also have that sense of self-worth too. It all builds together. Many neurodivergent moms lose touch of who they are outside of being a mom. I can relate to that when all your energy is… it's either in with the kids or in with work and there's really not much of self left after a busy day. How do you personally stay connected with yourself? 

TIARA: Yeah, man. That is so that's so important for everybody, but I think especially for people with ADHD, I think you know, I talk a lot with clients about that locus of control. Do we have an external or an internal locus of control? And if our whole how we are doing mentally is connected to our kids and how they're doing. If it's that external locus where all of these other people can decide how our day went for us, that is such a dangerous space to live in. I remember like the as a kid going on the airplane and how they'd talk about, you know, like the parents have to put the mask on first and I always thought like that doesn't make any sense. Like the kids can't reach it, help the kid, like they help the kid first. But as an adult, it really does make more sense. We can't be the caregivers we need to be. We can't create the kind of safe home environment that they need to flourish if we are not doing okay. So, that is a big piece that I work on with my clients is how do we move that internally? How do we give you more control and say over how you feel? What goes into that for you at the end of the day when you look back and you play that tape back? What were the biggest pieces that make you feel like it was good or bad or... so for me I need to have something that's challenging for me that I'm working on. I need something that's hard so that I can remember that I can do hard things that completely rely on my effort, my time. So I have gotten really into walking, but because I do everything extra, I can't just go for walks. So I do these 20 mile hikes that they do in states all over the US. They do them in state parks and it's wonderful. It really helps me to have that investment piece of I've paid for this event. It's on this day. So now I can work backwards from there. What do I need to do to prepare myself? So how does that look in terms of prioritizing my time? It's probably going to be a three-month training process to do something big and hard like that. So, that's at least those three months where I'm being intentional about setting aside time to go on those short walks that my kids can even come on with me. I'm making sure I'm doing exercises again that my kids can do with me, but those things are my kids see me working towards a goal. They see me chipping away at it day by day. And I love that it models that for them, but it really also gives me that opportunity. I get to do long walks. I get to listen to audiobooks. I get to be in nature. So, it also fills my regulation take every day just being outside. So, um that has been something that I have found that I really enjoy. I used to do 5ks or 10ks, but some kind of physical challenge that off in the distance and also having some of that um financial investment in it. I've bought news or I've done something to help me commit. So, it feels like it's somebody else telling me to do something, which is always easier to do than me trying to tell myself to do something. 

JULIE: With your ADHD coaching, you must see lots of clients all the time in different situations, but in your work right now, what feels most energizing or meaningful for you? 

TIARA: Is man, I love, I love what I do so much. I do. I love what I do so much and in general just being trusted and invited into these families where they are open with me and we get to be creative and come up with ideas of things that help support them is so fulfilling. But even more lately, I have found I've had a few clients who have gotten have sat have been sad, just get overwhelmed. Especially with kids, you know, some a lot of my clients, there's older ones who are more dealing with academic stuff. How do I turn things in on time? How do I manage that? And then I have some younger ones who have more of that emotional regulation piece where parents are hearing from the school consistently, your kid is doing this wrong. Your kid is doing that wrong. They feel like they're failing as a parent. And I've had a couple lately who have cried on phone calls just feeling like alone and like they're not fit and not able to do what they need to do for their kid and they're not the right parent for their kid. And you know these are women and I both of them just within the last week were apologetic like "I'm sorry. I'm wasting your time. I'm sorry I'm spending our time doing this. We should be working on something, talking about something." And that's kind of going back to I told both of them it goes back to the name of my business. I want you to invite me in to the space where you actually need help and support. That is where I want to come help you. We don't need to worry about him getting studying the right way for a test if you guys are not okay. So being trusted and to support women and help them see that they are not alone and creating a community like that. That just there's a lot of us in this messy middle together and that there is support and there is help and it's that has been really beautiful and impacting to me lately. So, yeah, been going to IEP meetings, just sitting there quietly, not contributing, just as a another set of ears. I just really genuinely want to help. I know how hard this road is, and I know how confusing and complicated it can be navigating it. And just being allowed to help walk that with people has been really beautiful. 

JULIE: Well, I think you're in the right career. I think, you know, when you're that passionate about helping and getting such a buzz from, you know, seeing change and being needed and loving it. It's all it's a beautiful bubble really. You know, it's great. So, I wish you very, very well with your coaching. You sound like a great coach that you come to in a time of need for sure. Finally for you, for the mom listening who feels exhausted and over stimulated, a little like the clients that you just spoke about, and if they're quietly wondering if what they're doing is enough, what would you like them to hear today? 

TIARA: You are enough. You are specifically designed to be the parent. I'm going to correct. Your kid is not your kid by accident. The ways that you struggled that butt up against the ways that they struggle can make it hard, but it also makes you the best person to help them navigate that. And you don't have to feel like you have to do it perfectly. Talk through it. Sometimes the first thing we do or the first thing we say is not the right thing. And modeling that is okay and making that repair is a beautiful gift to offer your kids of showing them that you known just it the things we do aren't permanent for the most part. And there's always opportunity to try a different way and also there's seasons you know. Sometimes it looks like success looks like drive-thru at 9:00 at night and nobody getting out of their pajamas on a Saturday. And sometimes it looks like getting help because you know your kid is about to go to college and maybe we're working on you know nit-picky things that feel nit-picky but really are important. You got to do what you need to do for your family. It's not about perfection, it's about progress and just being a human. Don't put so much pressure on yourself. 

JULIE: Thank you so much. Such lovely wise words and perspective and you've been a joy to have on the show today. So, thank you so much and wishing you all the very, very best. 

TIARA: Thank you so much for having me. I you are a fantastic host and I love hearing about your experience as well. So, thank you for sharing that with me.