ADHDifference

S2E10: ADHD, High Sensitivity & Sensory Processing + guest Dr Alise Murray

• Julie Legg • Season 2 • Episode 10

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Julie Legg welcomes Dr. Alise Murray – a clinical psychologist and life coach. With over 20 years of experience supporting adults with ADHD and a background working with highly sensitive people, Alise brings both professional expertise and deep compassion to the conversation. 

Together, she and Julie explore what makes ADHD management feel emotionally complex, how to navigate real-world challenges like time management, emotional regulation, and people-pleasing, all while honouring the unique wiring of our brains. 

From productivity tips to mindset shifts, this episode offers both encouragement and practical tools for anyone struggling to make life work with their ADHD, not against it.

Key Points from the Episode:

  • Alise’s background and entry into ADHD work
  • Understanding high sensitivity (HSP) and how it overlaps with traits often seen in ADHDers
  • Rejection Sensitivity & Emotional Regulation: why emotional overwhelm is so common in ADHD and how repeated criticism and internalised shame play a role.
  • The “Prior 10” Life Management System: Alise’s flexible planning method designed specifically for neurodivergent thinkers who don’t fit into traditional, linear productivity systems
  • Why many ADHD-friendly tools fail: a critique of overly rigid organisational methods and how they overlook emotional and motivational components
  • “You can’t live a meaningful life without disappointing people sometimes”: a powerful mindset shift Alise shares to help ADHDers set boundaries and communicate with grace
  • Dealing with low motivation 
  • Turning shame into self-celebration
  • Alise’s upcoming group coaching program, STAND, which supports ADHDers with planning, communication, motivation, and follow-through

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JULIE: Welcome to Season 2 of ADHDifference. I'm your host, Julie Legg, ADHD advocate, author of The Missing Piece: A Woman's Guide to Understanding, Diagnosing, and Living with ADHD, and an unapologetic doer of many things. This season, we're turning up the volume with a global lineup of brilliant guests bringing their lived experiences, insights, research, strategies, and resources. And of course, along with a healthy dose of humour and humility. Whether you're neurodivergent yourself or just curious, there's something here for every curious brain. Let's dive in. Today, I'm delighted to welcome Dr. Alise Murray to the podcast. Alise is a clinical psychologist, life coach, and creator of the Prior 10 Life Management System. She brings over 20 years of experience coaching adults with ADHD along with a background as a therapist for highly sensitive people. Her work blends practical brain friendly strategies and compassion for the emotional realities of ADHD and a real reassurance, the reminder that you're not broken and you're not alone. Welcome to the show, Alise. Thank you so much, Julie. [Pleasure to be here.] Yay. I'm going to dive straight into these questions. Now, you've spent more than 20 years coaching adults with ADHD, and so you bring a rich background as a therapist for highly sensitive people. So, I'd love to know what first drew you into this work and your own relationship with ADHD. 

ALISE: Yeah. Yeah. Well, as far as my own relationship with it, I do not have ADHD. I strongly suspect that I have two immediate family members who do. Their children do and so I would suspect, but, although I am a highly sensitive person and I've been quite open with that on the internet. So when I first learned about the concept of high sensitivity and sensory processing sensitivity, I was like, "Wow, wow, this is rich. This is really helpful." But my interest in ADHD really began when the first two jobs that I had after completing my studies, excuse me, I worked two part-time jobs and one job was as a university professor. And so I was... I had students coming during office hours. I was advising students and a lot of those students as you can imagine were saying "I am having a really hard time keeping on top of my schoolwork and my other obligations." And the other part-time job I had was working as a medical psychologist in a unit for folks who had a lot of whom had experienced mild traumatic brain injury and concussions and that sort of thing. And so you know, not specifically ADHD but very, very similar because you know typically impacting the same area of the brain. And so I was working with them providing education to families. And so it just really kind of naturally forged into and this was before I started my private practice, but it just really naturally forged into, wow, I just love this. You know, the challenges that are overlapping between both of these groups of folks that I was working with. 

JULIE: I was going to ask you too about the highly sensitive person people. Can you tell me what that means and how often you see that in your line of work? 

ALISE: Yeah, it's well and it's technically called sensory processing sensitivity. It's not a disorder. It's just a... it's a characteristic, but most people just call it high sensitivity or HSP. And it's I believe it's around 20%. I haven't looked at those statistics for a while. Maybe not quite that high, but it's approaching 20% of the population. And it basically means when somebody is highly sensitive interpersonally as well as in a sensory capacity. So being sensitive for instance to noise, to bright lights, to odours. Not everybody is sensitive to all of these things, but also being highly sensitive to interpersonal inputs. So, typically folks with high sensitivity, they tend to be quite creative individuals, quite empathic individuals, but they kind of soak up other people's feelings like a sponge. And so, that can be problematic. 

JULIE: Yeah. Very overwhelming, not only dealing with your own, but other people's as well, right? 

ALISE: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. There are some other little things too like caffeine sensitivity often goes with it, pain sensitivity. Yeah. Yeah. Just more of a reaction to these things. And so it's... I quite enjoy working with folks with high sensitivity because it's typically when they come to see me and it is fairly common. Folks will come to see me and they feel ashamed. They've been told in their life, "You're hyper sensitive. You need to get a thicker skin," you know, that sort of thing. But when they learn that, no, this is an actual thing. It's a genetically based trait. Nothing in psychology is strictly genetic, but there's a genetic basis for it. And across not just humans, but across hundreds of species that there's a percentage that is similar, you know, that has this. And just learning that this is not evidence that you're broken. It's something just to be aware of and to plan for so that you're not feeling constantly overwhelmed and you can use the gifts that come with it instead. And I think with ADHD too, you know that there are wonderful qualities with ADHD. And similarly folks will come to me and there's a lot feeling overwhelmed, feeling shame because a lot of criticism from folks. "If you just try harder. If you just apply yourself," you know, all these things. And then learning, you know, there are actually wonderful things about being wired the way that you are. It's just a matter of trying to maximize goodness of fit. 

JULIE: Absolutely. I wanted to ask you about the impact of challenges like rejection, sensitivity and anxiety and depression alongside ADHD and why do you think that those emotional layers often so much hand-in-hand with ADHD too? What helps people begin to untangle all of these different elements as a package? 

ALISE: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and also that a lot of folks who you know, who believe that they have ADHD, you know, having anxiety, having depression can make it difficult to direct your attention. It can cause some of the difficulties that we see with ADHD. So there's overlap there and some of those folks, you know, may not have ADHD, but it's like, no, I mean, we definitely can talk about strategies that will help you. But it just it gets puzzling for folks when they're trying to figure out what exactly is going on. But yeah, I mean, very, very often with ADHD, we do see an emotional component, you know, like rejection, sensitivity, for instance. I think a big part of that is that it's been estimated that, obviously we have no direct data, but it's been estimated that folks experience by the time they become adults they've experienced six times as much criticism as somebody who is not affected with ADHD just constantly getting this feedback that you know you need to do things differently and so I think that it's quite adaptive. If you're a child and you grow up hearing these things all the time that you're going to be very vigilant, you know, for signs that other people are going to, you know, criticize me or they're going to pull back, they're going to decide that they don't want to hang out with me or whatever. And then when starting to experience something that might be rejection then feeling like "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, it's happening again." You know I think that's part of it but I think also because with ADHD I mean as we all know it's not that you can't pay attention you know it's that you can pay attention exquisitely well but it's like directing your attention where you want it to go at will is where the challenge is. And so you know we all know about hyperfocus and so if somebody says you know I think we should see other people I mean I think everybody is going to experience the pain of that even if you were thinking that yeah this relationship is kind of on the rocks, still nobody likes to hear that. But when you have ADHD it's just so likely that you can just focus saw that go over and over in your head about, oh my gosh, you know, what that means and the impact of that and what is it about me and trying to understand it and make sense of it. And it's just overwhelming feeling like you've been punched in the stomach, you know, whereas other folks might kind of kind of quickly go to, you know, looking at it a little bit differently and it's painful, but okay, what's my next step? You know, I think with ADHD a lot of times there's like I want to really deeply, you know, look at all the angles of this and it's just overwhelming. 

JULIE: Absolutely. Yeah. So, I'd love to hear about some of your current passions or projects that you're working on. And now you've created the prior 10 life management system. I'd like to hear about that. And you coach and support adults navigating real world ADHD challenges like time management and productivity and self-esteem. Tell me about your management system and what's exciting you most in your work right now. 

ALISE: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and of course my system is not just for folks with ADHD. You know, folks, anybody who is really feeling overwhelmed and feeling like "I really need to figure out how to be able to navigate life in a more satisfactory way," which I think that applies to a lot of us. But I think particularly folks with ADHD have told me that they have tried and felt like I can't do it with various systems for being able to plan, being able to organize, that these things have not worked for them because you know, the kinds of what I've noticed is that quite often the systems that folks put out there and set up. These are people who are just naturally extremely left-brained and linear anyway and they sort of act like "Well yeah, you just do this, this, this, and then you know, problem solved." And you know, when you are not wired that way it's like you don't get it, you know. If I label my files and I put them you know in this system, I mean good luck. I mean I find them again. I mean thank goodness for digital systems where you can do a search and frantically search over and over. What did I call it again? But you know, at least there's that but be able to find things around the house and I mean we don't get into too much of that with Prior 10 but it's you know it kind of dove-tales into it just that so many of the things that you know are laid out in these kinds of productivity systems, organizational systems they're just not really thinking that hey I Not everybody is going to be able to do this optimally because their brains are not organized in that way. So I mean it's like asking someone who's left-handed. It's like ah just keep practicing with the right hand. I mean yeah maybe you can do it but is that really fair? I mean why not you know do things left-handed and celebrate that and you know work with that. So, so I with prior tan I mean that's so that's part of it and then also I just recognized that a big thing that's lacking is that you know being able to figure out things like what do I need to do, when?" And how do I keep track of the different responsibilities that I have? Obviously that's important but there's so much more to it than that. There's also looking at things like, well, what if I'm not motivated to do it? I mean, what if I have this plan and then I sit down and I'm just like, I do not want to do this at all, you know. Or, I'm getting distracted and I find, you know, I start doing this and then, you know, squirrel, I'm doing something else. Or I thought I finished it but it's not done. What? You know, like I missed a detail, you know, like there are just a lot of psychological factors and particularly being able to communicate. Not only to be able to kind of think about what are reasonable limits for myself so that I can really pour my energy into what's important to me, but also how do I express that to other people without, you know, being afraid that they're going to say that I'm [ __ ] or demanding or whatever. You know, how do I communicate in a way where I'm more likely to get results and I can say, you know, this is what I can do. I'm sorry I can't do this, however, and feel confident about that. That I just feel like in a lot of the productivity space, they don't really get into the emotional part of all of this, which is huge. 

JULIE: That is so true. Something sparked in my mind about you were talking before about just not feeling up to doing things, you know, that... not having that energy, bringing that to the table. I remember as a teenager thinking I was very, very clever and... we didn't have a television in the house so there wasn't a default to go and watch television. So for me on rainy days I'd write this big list. If it's raining this is what I will do. And I wrote down everything from skipping a hundred steps to reading a book, to writing poetry, playing my guitar. Huge big list so I was never stuck. But come a rainy day I would look at the list, nothing inspired me. And I couldn't wrap my head around why that was the case because in my mind I'd covered every possible option, but actually I just didn't have the energy. And maybe for me, that novelty factor wasn't there because everything on my list was proven and done and just part of a routine and I needed something else to spark me in a direction. Interesting how our wonderful brains work. 

ALISE: Yeah. Yeah. And I talk with my folks with ADHD about, you know, when we're developing and a lot of the folks that I've worked with, I mean, they just... they have actively resisted any effort to plan. You know, because they've just had bad experiences with it. And so when we gradually start putting together, because it's not cookie cutter, you know, but there are certain elements where I say, "Okay, we need to, you know, address this, we need to address that." You know, and we put things together and we start to do that and then they start to get excited about the results they're getting. You know, I say, "Okay, now I'm not... not to be a wet blanket, but the chances are excellent that in a month or so, you know, you might be like not wanting to do it and baffled about why you don't want to do it because it's been working so well." So, and it's because your brain needs to wake up. So, let's talk about some things you could do when that starts to happen because often times it's just a little tweak. You know, it's like not everybody is going to want to do this, but you know, but I often you know, I often use like a bullet journal system. Not strictly speaking a bullet journal, but you know, I'll sort of create my own way of planning on paper as I go. I personally do a combination of digital and paper planning and I just work with people about what is comfortable for you. But you know something as simple as "Okay, I'm really getting bored with this. Let me just turn it this way now instead of holding the book this way. Let me just lay out my planning this way." Bang. You know, the brain is awake. "Or let me use a different colour pen." You know, just any little thing where it's like, "Okay, now you got my attention. And now this is more fun," you know, can make a big difference. And it's not something to get on your own case about. It's like, no, "I just have this amazing creative brain that just needs a little shot to wake it up here and there." 

JULIE: That sounds a great strategy. And I was going to ask you about strategies, too. You often blend practical, brain friendly strategies with compassion for the ADHD experience for your clients. Is there a one strategy or something that you refer back to? Whether it's for yourself or for your clients that helps cut through let's say overwhelm?  

ALISE: Yeah. Well, I mean, one thing that I do come back to over and over with folks that just really resonates is just the idea that you can't possibly have a richly rewarding life without disappointing others from time to time. You know, that it is going to happen with a fair degree of regularity. And so shifting your mindset from looking at "How can I try to make everybody happy? How can I avoid disappointing others?" which you know of course is bound to get you feeling overwhelmed because it can't be done. You know, instead looking at "How do I master the art of disappointing others gracefully, disappointing them with respect for them and with clear communication so that you know, we understand one another?" That you know, looking at it in that way is so important and so yeah. I think just kind of accepting like "Okay this is another one of those situations where I'm going to be disappointing someone. So, let me shift gears into how to disappoint them in a way that honours them and honours me." 

JULIE: I personally can struggle with that after being a people-pleaser for so long. Adding masking to that over decades, I really... I'm getting better now, but difficult situation to say no. It feels rude saying no. It feels not just like I'm disappointing someone, but I'm actually I'm a ruthless person, you know. Because in the past I would have said yes, yes, yes. And I'm almost contradicting myself by speaking my truth. So, I love the idea to be able to say it with grace and respect yet still get your thoughts across and it's for our own health and well-being that we say no occasionally, or more than occasionally if that's you know if that works for us. So, no, really interesting, very interesting. So Alise, with your Prior 10 system, what else is happening in that space? 

ALISE: Well, I'm really excited that in early 2026, we're going to be starting an 8-week group coaching program called Stand. And my reason for developing this was because well, for one thing of course I love teaching being a former professor but the big reason is because just there weren't enough spots you know for the one-on-one coaching and also I think that it can be really helpful to have accountability from other folks who are going through this alongside you. So it's going to be like an 8-week group coaching program. We're going to be looking at the planning aspect of the Prior 10 life management system, but as well as we're going to be working on that authentic communication piece, being able to master that art of disappointing others gracefully. And being able to deal with motivation and attention and the different things that can cause us to get off track so that we can really focus our time and energy around what's most important to us rather than just feeling like you're in a batting cage and you're constantly like dealing with problems. Living a life that is really more focused around what's important to you. So I'm very excited about that. 

JULIE: And Alise is that in person or online? 

ALISE: That's going to be online. [Great.] So yeah, so we'll just we'll be having Zoom meetings. We will be... and of course you know if people can't attend the Zoom there will be replays. There will be emails to offer helpful suggestions, co-working time that's optional. So, yeah, just a number of different ways to be able to group chat to be able to get support through this as you're learning the system. 

JULIE: Sounds great. For someone who is listening who might feel sort of weighed down by ADHD, these cycles of shame, whether it's missed deadlines or just feeling that they're not enough or just stuck. What would you most want them to hear? 

ALISE: I think it's just so important to remember that the things that we criticize ourselves for are that there is strength hidden within those things. That I first started to consider this when I read a book by Thomas Leonard the coach, and he, where he talked about... I read this passage where he said "My biggest fault is that..." and he had it in capital letters drawn way out. He said "I am WAAAAAYYYY too sensitive to other people's you know opinions, reactions," that sort of thing. And that caught my attention, you know, but he said you know, "That I've come to realize that this is also the source of my greatest strength because at first I would be ashamed of it being a man and being so sensitive and that sort of thing." But he said, "I've learned to manage it and I've learned to appreciate it because I can tune right in to what people want and need in ways that a lot of other people can't because I can pick up on it." And I have found that to be absolutely true, too. And I think it's not just with sensitivity, but I think quite often we don't stop and think about what... yes, this is frustrating. Yes, I wish that, you know, things went more smoothly for me in this respect, in this respect, but also what are the hidden strengths? Let me stop and think about that because quite often they're there. You know, we just haven't discovered them yet. You know, like I can never remember his name, but the guy who started Kinko's in the States. I don't know if you're familiar with Kinko's, but Kinko is like they had like photocopying and shipping and you know, services like that where you'd go in. And he started that business when he was quite young. He was in his 20s, I think. But he started that business because he had a job that bored him to tears. When the boss wasn't looking, he would wander off and he would go down the little strip mall and just talk with other people, other business people, and just ask them, you know, "How's business?" And they would tell him their frustrations. And the wheels started to turn where he was thinking creatively about, huh? So if they had a one stop where they could get all these things done, you know, that could really be amazing and they could buy supplies while they're there and all that, you know. And so he developed.. he said "If it weren't for my ADHD and my tendency to get incredibly bored easily and you know that's really the source of my creativity when I get really bored." And so he said, "If I hadn't been wired like that, if I'd been perfectly content to have this dull little desk job, then I wouldn't have started Kinkos." And you know, I think that it's absolutely true. I love working with my clients because so often they are just so creative and you know, when you can channel that brilliance and not see it as, "Oh, why am I so scattered and everything?" It's like no, no, no, there is strength there. It's amazing. So, it's both. I mean, I'm not trying to minimize that. Yes, it's frustrating, too, but you know, because I hear that, but also, you know, don't ignore the strength. Because I think that, you know, as children, we grow up hearing about the liability part of it. We don't hear about the strength part of it, you know. 

JULIE: And I think to stop being scared of ourselves too because we've got amazing qualities and our challenges shouldn't weigh us down like an anchor in a bad way when it could be quite freeing just and liberating to be ourselves and shine brightly with our strengths. I love your chat on boredom. I think you know, boredom's the word's very interesting. I get scared of boredom but actually what it is, it's a moment. It's only momentary because something will snap in and I will come up with a new idea or find something that interests me. So it's only temporary. Boredom doesn't last forever. So yeah, it's an interesting pause between, you know, nothingness and doing something quite brilliant. 

ALISE: Yeah, it's like when you go for a walk, you know, so often it's recommended that we go for a walk during the workday and when you start the walk, I mean, typically it's boring. You know, you're walking like, "All right, I've been down this road before, you know, and that sort of thing." But then in no time your mind just starts to you know pick up on that sensory input and the physical movement and you just start to get these really amazing you know, imaginative ideas. So you just it's just like sticking with it you know. I mean if we just start walking for 2 minutes and say grrhhh and then go home and look at our phone you know, it's like no we missed the opportunity. So it's like riding out the boredom just a little bit and then enough times the treasure comes. 

JULIE: Oh, that's brilliant and what a great way to end our chat. So thank you so much for your time. Details about your Prior 10 will be in the show notes for our listeners to go and check out and to connect with you. So thank you so much for your time. 

ALISE: Thank you so much. It's really been a pleasure, Julie.

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Julie Legg

Host
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Jel Legg

Co-host
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Dr Alise Murray

Guest